We don't know who the parents of William FORREST (c.1795-1844) were. These notes provide my current understanding of the facts and their interpretation.

Possible Baptisms

• William FOREST baptized at Blackburn on 7 Sep 1794 by William and Betty.
• William FOREST, born 7 Sep 1795, was baptized at Samlesbury on 13th Sep 1795 by Thomas and Ann FOREST⁷ who baptized nine children in Samlesbury: John 1785, Ellen 1786, Ellen 1788, John 1791, James 1793, William 1795, Jane 1798, Alice 1800-1806 and Thomas 1804.
• William FORREST baptized at Blackburn on 16 Mar 1796 by Samuel and Ellen.
• William FORREST born 25 Nov 1798, was baptized on 6 Jan 1799 by William and Ellin FORREST of Lower Darwen.

The 1841 Wagtail family⁵

In 1841 a family of four FORRESTs were living at Wagtail, Duke's Brow, all working as cotton weavers, including: William FORREST, 65-69, James FORREST, 35-39, Ann, 15, and James, 9. Neither this 'Wagtail William" nor the older James are good fits for being the children's father(s); no record of a James baptizing a James or an Ann has been found.

Ann and James are, however, good matches for being the children of William, specifically the daughter of William and Mary UNKNOWN and the son of William and Nancy ELLISON. Indeed, there are no other census records for either Ann or James of the right age in/around Blackburn. The only Ann baptized in/around Blackburn of the right age, is that of William and Mary UNKNOWN as per William's page",text>.

As Wagtail William was living in 1841, but not found in 1851, then his death would have been registered between 1841 and 1851. The only matching death record is for a William FORREST, an 'out pensioner of the Chelsea Hospital' who died of old age in Livesey, Blackburn on 13 Mar 1849, aged 76 & 11 months (born c. April 1772)4. It is believed to be the death registration of Sergeant William FORREST of the 2nd Dragoon Guards.

Serjeant William FORREST

Serjeant William FORREST served with the 2nd Dragoon Guards (a cavalry regiment called "the Queen's Bays" after their bay horses). Serjeant William, of Blackburn was a weaver by profession when he joined the corps on 21 April 1794. He served for 16 1/2 years before being transferred to the Regiment of Veterans for another 4 years to 24 Jul 1814 when it was disbanded¹.

The Bays were in the Low Countries and northern France during the first two years of the French Revolutionary War, between May 1793 and March 1795. After initial success they were later forced to retreat to Germany where they suffered from sickness and starvation which killed many men and horses. Serjeant William, who was enlisted in the Bays on 21 April 1794, would not have been involved, but was possibly transferred to the regiment to make up for losses in the field.

It's not clear where the Bays where posted for the next 15 years, but Serjeant William spent 3 years as a Private, 2 years as a Corporal and 11 years a Serjeant.

The Bays next known posting was not until 1809, when they were sent on the disastrous campaign to Walcheren, with the aim of destroying the French-held port of Antwerp. The Bays embarked in Ramsgate in July 1809 as part of a force of 40,000 men. The poor sanitary conditions, malaria and "Walcheren fever" killed ten percent of the force and weakened the survivors. They were back in Ramsgate by 6 Sep 1809.

Serjeant William was transferred to the Regiment of Veterans the following year, due to him "being worn out". It's possible that this was age related, but he may have been suffering from the lingering effects of the Walcheren campaign. As a Serjeant, William would have been able to read and write, and he signed his name fluently on both of his discharge papers.

At his final discharge from the Veterans on 24 Jul 1814, Serjeant William FORREST was 46 years 10 months old, indicating his birth date as Sep 1767. He was described as being 5' 9" tall, brown hair, grey eyes and fresh complexion.

A William FORREST, Chelsea Hospital pensioner, died on 30 Mar 1849, aged 76 and 11 months, in the Livesey area of SW Blackburn⁶. It is less than 3 miles from Wagtail, Duke's Brow. The death was reported by Thomas FORREST of Livesey, who was likely a son who had been caring for Serjeant William. The age on the death certificate suggests a birth in April 1772.

Was it Serjeant William FORREST who was living in Wagtail in 1841 ? The evidence is strong:

• There is only one William FORREST in Blackburn in the 1841 census that fits Serjeant William's age, and that is Wagtail William. Serjeant William (if born April 1772) would have been 69, which fits with the recorded age of 65(-69) for Wagtail William.
• Wagtail William described himself as a cotton weaver, rather than as an Independent Chelsea Hospital pensioner, however cotton weaver was Serjeant William's stated profession on discharge and he may have been actively weaving at the time of the census.
• There is only one death registration that fits with Wagtail William, and that is Serjeant William's.
• Can Thomas FORREST of Livesey, be linked to Wagtail James born 1801-1806 or to William born c.1795 ? One possible Thomas FORREST is an imperfect match, but plausible:
• In 1851, two years after Serjeant William's death, Thomas FORREST, aged 49, born c.1801/1802, a general labourer, was living in a group of workers cottages called Spring Gardens, across from Hoghton Bottoms, on the River Darwen (buildings now vanished, on what is now called Long Lane) with his wife Betty and 6 children, including a William (17) and a James. Thomas' place of birth was given as Pleasington². Hoghton Bottoms is not in Livesey, but this is the closest Thomas FORREST to Livesey in 1851, two years after a Thomas FORREST reported Serjeant William's death.
• In 1841 a Thomas FORREST, 35-39, farmer, is living with wife Betty (Betty FIELDING, m. 26 Dec 1826), 8 children (including a William aged 7) and his father-in-law at Higher Bencock, in the Township of Pleasington³. Given the direction in which the census taker was moving, they likely lived at Higher Bencock farm, the most easterly of the High Bencock buildings. The farm no longer exists, but the terrace of stone cottages 100yds to the west have survived (on Billinge End Road). The farm was only 1 mile west of Wagtail, Duke's Brow, and in 1841 you would have been able to look down on the farm from Duke's Brow. It's 2 miles from Mellor.
• In 1861 Thomas, cotton twister, 60, still with Betty, daughter Elizabeth and next to son Robert, cotton twister, living in Rakes Bridge, and born in "Lower Darwen". This information is repeated in 1871, although he is a cotton loomer.
• He died in 23 September 1871, aged 70.
• If he was baptized near to where he was born (not certain if his father was a soldier) then his parents could be William and Ellin FORREST who baptized a Thomas in Blackburn on 13 Sep 1801. This date fits with all Thomas' reported ages. William and Ellin baptized: Methusaleh (1789), Richard (1792), John(1796), William (6 Jan 1799), Thomas (1801), and Robert(1804).
• William's first daughter was called Ellen.
• William, bap. 6 Jan 1799, could have been the father of William, but the suicide narrative is weakened (as that William FORREST was reputedly born c1795). But perhaps William was a brick-maker working elsewhere.
• No baptismal record for Wagtail James (who would have been born between 1801 and 1806) has been found, but there is a gap in the known baptisms between 1801 and 1804, so he may yet turn up in another register.
• If, however, he was born in 1704 near Samlesbury where a Thomas FORREST was baptized by Thomas and Ann FORREST in 1804, then he would have been the brother of William FOREST born and baptized in 1795 who would have been a perfect match for William the suicide. He also has a brother James b 1793, who in 1841 would have been 10 years too old to be Wagtail James.

Implication of Serjeant William FORREST

Aside from the surname, there's still nothing concrete to inform whether Serjeant William was even a relative of William. Was he William's father, and uncle or unrelated?

Who were Serjeant William's parents (who baptized him in ~ May 1772)?

• Thomas FORREST married Elizabeth MARSDEN on 22 May 1759. Thomas signed his own name. Witnesses were Thomas MARGERISON and Easter FORREST.
• The children of Thomas and Betty FORREST were, perhaps:
• Ellen - 3 Apr 1763 - by Thomas and Betty FORREST of Mellor (a late baptized child?)
• William - 17 Jul 1763 - Samlesbury, born 5 Jul 1763
• Sarah - 16 May 1765 - Samlesbury, born 29 Apr 1765
• James - 12 Oct 1766 - by Thomas and Betty FORREST of Pleasington, at St Mary the Virgin
• potential marriages: Betty COTHAM 1791, Betty HOLKER 1792, Ellen SMITH 1794
• James FORREST of Pleasington, yeoman, died c.1813 - Will proved 5 Feb 1814, admon granted to Richard EDLESTON and John FORREST.
• John - 16 Jun 1769 by Thomas and Betty FORREST of Pleasington, at St Mary the Virgin
• only marriage: John, weaver, aged 20, married Frances THOMPSON, aged 19, on 30 May 1787 in Samlesbury
• children: Thomas 1787, Sarah 1789, Jane 1791
• a John FORREST of Pleasington, aged 56, was buried at St Paul, Blackburn on 4 Jan 1826
• William - 15 May 1772 by Thomas and Betty FORREST of Pleasington, at St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn⁸
• It seems plausible that William, the youngest son of a literate (yeoman?) father, joined the army in 1794 aged 22, and, as someone who could read and write, quickly rose to the rank of Serjeant.
• This also leaves brothers James and John as potential fathers to Wagtail James.

Was Serjeant William William's father?

• William FORREST was born in 25 Nov 1798 and baptized on 6 Jan 1799 by Serjeant William and Ellin FORREST of Lower Darwen.
• He was the 4th of 6 children. His brother Thomas was baptized 13 Sep 1801.
• In 1841 Serjeant William was working as a weaver in Wagtail, with James 35-39 (who is this? a son between Thomas and Robert, possibly born/baptized while Serjeant William was away with his regiment?) and two of William's children.
• William's brother Thomas was a farmer a mile down the road in High Bencock.
• William did not commit suicide, as the victim was 4 years older.
• William himself was elsewhere in the country or had already died.
• Thomas moved to Livesey before 1849, and cared for Serjeant William in his final days in 1849.
• Thomas then moved to Spring Gardens before March 1851, and then to Rakes Bridge before 1861.
• Key issues is that doesn't explain James 35-39. See 'Who was Wagtail James?' below.

Who was Wagtail James?

If we believe that James and Ann, living at Wagtail in 1841, were William's children, and we believe that Wagtail William was Serjeant William FORREST of the 2nd Dragoon Guards, then who was Wagtail James, aged 35-39 ?

Birth: The most likely baptisms were:

• 19 Feb 1804 in Blackburn St Mary the Virgin by Thomas and Betty FORREST of Blackburn. This James FORREST was born 19 Jan 1804. 1841: 37. Other potential children: Ellen (1803), James (1804), Alice (1805), James (1806), Margaret (1807), Ellen (1811) and Thomas (1813).
• 2 Oct 1805 in Blackburn St Mary the Virgin by James and Betty FORREST of Blackburn. This James FORREST was born 15 Sep 1805. 1841: 35. Other potential children: James (1790), John & Isaac (together 1792), Alice (Feb 1793), Samuel (May 1793), Thomas (1800), John (Jul 1802 Balderston), John (Jan 1803), William (1804), James (1805), Ellin (Feb 1806 Balderston), Ellen (1808), Thomas (Balderston 1808), Margaret (Balderston 1810), Roger (Mar 1811), Mary (Oct 1811), Margaret (Balderston 1814), and Jinny (1818). Clearly 2 or more families. (Perhaps one of the fathers was the James FORREST who was buried in Mellor on 14 Apr 1835, aged 52, suggesting a birth year of 1782/3.)
• 12 Jan 1806 in Blackburn St Mary the Virgin by Thomas and Betty FORREST of Blackburn. 1841: 35 (Possibly same parents as above, but no burial found.). Potential other children as above.
• Or he was born elsewhere. Was he Sergeant William's son, born while he was away with his regiment?

Military: No records

Emigration: No records

Census:

• None found that fit in Blackburn (aside from Wagtail in 1841): In 1851, only a Scottish block printer,48, and an Inn Keeper, 45, (also seen in 1841). In 1861, a farmer in Samlesbury, aged 60 (also seen in 1841). In 1871, in Clitheroe, Scottish block printer, 67.
• Macclesfield 1851: James FORREST, 46, hand loom weaver (silk), born Blackburn (but also seen in 1841).

Death:

• The only death or burial found was a GRO death in Blackburn was Q1 1878 aged 74. This was likely the Scottish block printer.

The Samlesbury FOR(R)ESTS

A number of families were based in Samlesbury (near Mellor) including:

• Thomas FORERST and Ann BROTHERTON baptized nine children in Samlesbuy between 1785 and 1804, specifically: John 1785, Ellen 1786, Ellen 1788, John 1791, James 1793, William 1795, Jane 1798, Alice 1800-1806 and Thomas 1804. Thomas FORREST, a weaver, 23, married Anne BROTHERTON, 23, on 30 Dec 1784 in Samlesbury.
• John and Ellen FORREST baptized Margaret 1783, Peter 1790 (Serjeant Peter FORREST of 3rd Lancastrian Militia), John 1791 and William 1810.
• John and Jane baptized Jane 1786. (Jane (aged 18?) buried Jane 1804.)
• John and Frances THOMPSON baptized Thomas 1787, Sarah 1789, Jane 1791
• William FORREST and Rachael LOFTHOUSE (m. 1791) baptized James 1797, Alice 1800, Elizabeth 1804 and Thomas 1809
• William and Betty baptized William 1801, Samson 1804 (Betty alone) .